Preterist Q&A

This is an effort to answer some questions from a conversation in another location.

**Disclaimer: Instead of reiterating this too often throughout, I will state this here at the beginning so it can be noted that everything that follows is my personal view as I’ve studied the Bible with the Holy Spirit. There may be some cognitive dissonance associated with reading this. Take what is pertinent to your walk and lay aside what you feel you must. Overall, do not take my word alone, but research for yourself to find the deeper truth relevant to your personal walk with God. **

Does corruption and evil continue forever?
Evil and corruption continues in the physical realm due to man’s free will. This corruption doesn’t exist in the kingdom Jesus rules, but that kingdom isn’t of this physical world as we know it. Generally, it’s our own desires that keep us from living in the kingdom now. What would happen if we lived like the world could continue indefinitely? Are we living out love like Jesus did (all that love your enemy type stuff)? Do we really believe Jesus’ way of love can change the world or are we just holding out until Jesus shows up someday? Jesus showed us the way and Father sent us the Holy Spirit to empower us to remake the world through love (as opposed to law).

Where do the “unsaved” go, Sheol forever?
First, I wanted to mention that I’m not qualified to make the decision of who is saved or not—only Jesus is able to make that call. However, we can get hints of how Jesus made those calls by looking at his ministry in the gospels. Often, it seems the religious leaders were the ones furthest from the truth because their doctrine of heaven worthiness was based on the letter of the law. Throughout his ministry, Jesus turns this thought process on its head.

So, those that don’t make it into heaven, according to what I personally understand, would have indeed gone to what was known as Sheol (at least until the end of the 1000 years) which has been translated into other names in the Bible—death, the grave, the outer darkness (where there is weeping and gnashing of teeth), Hades (which originated as a Greek/pagan concept), etc…but not to be confused with Gehenna. In Revelation, death (Sheol) and Hades (the Greek version of afterlife punishment) are destroyed in the lake of fire, which is called the second death. As Paul states, death (Sheol, captivity to the grave) is the last enemy to be destroyed.

Now, there is another assumption of eternal torment as translated from the words “aionios kolasis.” As I’ve researched these words, they seem to have more of the meaning of “an age of corrective punishment.” See this post if interested. This may have application to us today, but I believe the original context was directed at Israel and a continuation of the Olivet Discourse (denoting Israel’s destruction). In other words, the lake of fire may very well be this “aionios kolasis.” To state it another way, why would Sheol and Hades be destroyed if they were already eternal separation from God and/or burning punishment, just to put into place a different environment of eternal torture and separation? This is going a bit off subject, but if interested in my other thoughts on this, see this post and the bottom of this post about fire.

Is there no apocalypse?
The apocalypse happened in the first century when Rome destroyed Jerusalem and went throughout Judea killing any Jews who didn’t “flee to the mountains.” There isn’t a future (to us) apocalypse denoted in scripture though humanity seems to have developed the capacity to destroy themselves.

What about every eye seeing him?
The verse referred to here is Revelation 1:7. I would like to point out how one small word choice here can vary the meaning of a passage significantly:

“Look, he is coming with the clouds,” and “every eye will see him, even those who pierced him”; and all peoples on earth “will mourn because of him.” So shall it be! Amen.

Looking at a concordance, the “even” in this verse can also be translated as “namely.” This verse then has the meaning that those, namely the ones that pierced him, will see him in the clouds.

Additionally, the word “peoples” is better understood as “tribes” (and is translated as such in some versions of the Bible). Tribes most often referred to the tribes of Israel.

The words world and earth have various understandings depending on context. In some translations, the end of the world is actually talking about the end of the age (aion – which often denotes the OT kingdom age and the full substantiation of the NT kingdom). In other instances, the heavens and earth are speaking of Israel. For example – in the OT, God calls Israel the heavens and earth (Isaiah 1:2). Additionally, we see that OT destruction didn’t always happen literally in the physical realm as described. Compare Isaiah 13:10&13 to Matthew 24:29. When Babylon was destroyed, we know that the physical earth wasn’t shaken out of its place, yet the prophecy was still considered fulfilled.

Why is there no literature or reports about his coming if it already happened?
First, we have to consider that most Christians had fled Judea—those that kept watch of the signs and fled in advance as directed. Many of the apostles had already died for the gospel at this time. Those that remained in Judea would have been caught in the Roman campaign of extermination. Being that Jerusalem was totally decimated, no text that may have been written would have been salvaged.

However, two historians did record such events:

Josephus, a Jewish historian present during Rome’s campaign, recorded this:

“I suppose the account of it would seem to be a fable, were it not related by those that saw it, and were not the events that followed it of so considerable a nature as to deserve such signals; for, before sun-setting, chariots and troops of soldiers in their armor were seen running about among the clouds, and surrounding of cities.”

Likewise, the Roman historian Tacitus recorded this:

“In the sky appeared a vision of armies in conflict, of glittering armour.”

Why are there prophecies still being fulfilled?
I believe this is partially our correlating of scripture written to an ancient eastern culture to our modern-day western culture. The other portion is that history often repeats itself in part or whole. This seems to be largely because we tend to revise history to our liking thereby repeating the mistakes that we’re ignoring. In our modern culture, we’re still pursuing righteousness by law and attempting to force or covert others to follow an external set of mandates to be saved. So, we may see signs that resemble Bible prophecy, but those specific prophecies were fulfilled within their respective time frames as denoted. Modern eschatology is usually delivered with such fear that we tend to ignore the 1st Century time context entirely, or we are made too afraid to openly seek answers.

Additionally, if we consider Hebrews 10:25, first century Christians were seeing implicit signs of the Day approaching then (and how often is this verse used to mandate church attendance while ignoring the timing context?). Likewise, when some thought they had missed the Parousia (because of how implicit the signs were), Paul reaffirms that there was still one major sign to occur. Note in 2 Thessalonians 2, when Paul talks about the “man of lawlessness,” he states that he was already at work but not yet revealed (v7-8). The man of lawlessness would have to be immortal to still be alive today, and Paul delineates that it’s not Satan himself who is this man, but this man is a pawn of Satan (v9).

Now, all of this is just the tip of the iceberg. I tried to stay on topic of the questions presented originally. If there are further questions, I would be happy to try to answer them.

Additionally, here’s an overview of my preterist belief. As well, I made several posts previously about my thoughts on prophecy and Revelation if interested.

My Personal View—The Heresy of Heresies

I want to state outright, this is a personal view I hold and possibly one of the most hesitant posts I publish. This writing is meant to be primarily informative to help others understand how I think and where I’m coming from in my views. It’s not intended to force anyone to my viewpoint or insult anyone. I fully admit that I could be wrong about certain things, and that I don’t have all the answers. This view has helped me grow closer to Father, and for me, that is the most important thing.

General
My view mostly resembles what is commonly known as “full preterism.” However, I don’t strictly consider myself a preterist as there seems to be a whole lot of baggage associated with that label. When I say I lean more towards this view, it is only that I believe that all of the prophecies of the Bible have already been fulfilled. I want to explain how I came to these conclusions but also keep this post reasonable in length as to not write a book. My point is that this will not be a very comprehensive writing, but, hopefully, only hitting some main points. Further discussion could be made for those interested.

First, it would seem all the language used pointed to a 1st century fulfillment. I’ve already written about some of this here as well as a series of posts linked here. I’ve placed a lot of info in those links, but to sum everything up—the early churches were seeing the signs of Jesus’ Second coming, just as he said they would if they weren’t “asleep.” One quick example is Hebrews 10:25—as you see the Day approaching.

History
The next big concept is the historical parallels. I listed some of these out as relevant to Revelation in the above links, but I wanted to point out why these seem much more legitimate to me.

First, we have the Jewish historian Josephus. The short story is that he originally led Jewish forces against Rome during the war that started in 66 AD. He surrendered, but was kept alive by Vespasian. The reason—based on the Old Testament prophecies, he predicted that Vespasian would become Emperor. It’s important to note that Josephus would have had little to no knowledge of the Revelation written by John (if believed, like I, that Revelation was written before or around the 66 AD time frame). It also seems, interestingly enough, that he never converted to Christianity despite what he recorded. This, to me, would make his writings more legitimate as he was only recounting what he witnessed and not collaborating with Christians.

One opposing view to this might be that we can’t trust historians over the Bible. However, when historians attest to what’s in the Bible, especially relevant to the specified time frame, it makes the Bible even more legitimate. In addition, confining God’s workings only to what he did in the Bible, that he has no power outside of those stipulations, would limit him to not being able to work in all of his creation, including our world today.

With that in mind, I wanted to point out just a few historical parallels recorded by historians such as Josephus, though there are many more.

Rev 16:21—Great hailstones, about the weight of a talent, * came down out of the sky on people. People blasphemed God because of the plague of the hail, for this plague is exceedingly severe.

Josephus: Wars of the Jews, Bk5, Chpt6—the stones that were cast were of the weight of a talent…it was of a white colour…(during the 1st century siege of Jerusalem)

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Rev 1:7, Matt 24:30, Matt 16:27-28—Jesus coming in the clouds/with angels.

Josephus: Wars of the Jews—I suppose the account of it would seem to be a fable…before sunsetting, chariots and troops of soldiers in their armor were seen running about among the clouds”

Tacitus: Histories, Bk5, v.13—In the sky appeared a vision of armies in conflict, of glittering armour.

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Matt 24:21—For then there will be great distress, unequaled from the beginning of the world until now–and never to be equaled again.

Josephus—The slaughter within was even more dreadful than the spectacle from without. Men and women, old and young, insurgents and priests, those who fought and those who entreated mercy, were hewn down in indiscriminate carnage. The number of the slain exceeded that of the slayers. The legionaries had to clamber over heaps of dead to carry on the work of extermination.

Additional reference—WARNING!!! Explicit. Do not view if easily offended!

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As stated, these are but a few parallels and there are many more that. Along with the Bible’s own internal time statements, this led me to believe 99% of the prophecies were completed in the 1st century. The only exception would be the 1000 years in which Satan is released afterwards. I have detailed my view of this here.

Considerations
Now, this brings up some questions that I would like to touch on shortly. Note, these are my views and, again, I’m not forcing anyone to agree with me.

What happens now if Jesus’ Second coming has already occurred? For me, I believe it’s possible for Jesus to return again, though the Bible doesn’t detail this. It details his 1st century coming, 1st and 2nd. God can, of course, send Jesus a third time as he is God. A more likely scenario, again imo, is that the Kingdom has already been established. God has gone through great lengths not to violate our free will choices while also working behind the scenes. In the Bible, he seems to have given explicit instructions and warnings from Genesis through Revelation as pertinent to the timing and culture. No such implicitness has been given to this aion (age).

In addition, the 1000 year reign doesn’t state that there will be total peace as we know it from our human perspective. Instead, if we look at history from a wide angle, when Satan was bound, the world became more and more peaceful until he was loosed. The effects he had set in motion continued while he was bound but lost power overtime. Like with a tsunami, the temporary thrashing of the earthquake causing it may have long ceased, yet the tidal wave continues on until it has completely dissipated. Similarly, I see this as happening first in Rev 12:7-9, 12-13—Satan kicked out of heaven then thrashing about because he knew his time was short. Likewise, after a thousand years, we see, as referenced in the link above, Satan’s post-millennial thrashing, from which we still see the subsiding of that today. Note, the 1000 years seems to reference Satan’s binding, not the limits of Jesus’ rule. He still rules today!

I believe the world is getting better overall. We see billions more people in the world today, though, slowly, people are learning to treat each other better. We see the sensationalist drama on the news, and I agree we have a long way to go, but I believe God is working things behind the scenes. Perhaps, heaven and earth are getting closer all the time and one day, when all hearts sing in unison, “Come Lord Jesus, Come!” we will see the Kingdom fully substantiated in our reality.

Phew! Okay, I know this is quite long and apologies for that, but I wanted to hit the major points. This is the short version. I know this goes waaaaaaay off the reservation, but it’s something I felt I needed to share in respect to full disclosure. As stated, this is not to cause dissent or arguments but simply to present my thoughts so others might understand how I’ve come to the conclusions I have. Feel free to toss all of this aside if it has no relevance to your journey :).

A few final questions to wrap up. If the constant though of “holding out” until death or Jesus’ return was no longer the primary focus, how would your life change and how would you live in this world now? Would you desire to work harder knowing that this world could go on for countless years to come or would you relax since you were no longer under threat? In other words, are we working in the world out of fear of God or out of our beautiful love relationship with him? Which does he prefer?

Revelation – TL;DR

So, here’s a general summary of my views after reviewing Revelation and the New Testament prophecies as well as much of the correlating symbolism reused or further explained from the Old Testament.

We see the repetition and the calling out of the soon timetable in both the opening and closing chapters of Revelation, as well as throughout. To avoid repetition, see the timing section of this post. These are the same concepts that Jesus presents in the gospels and the apostles encourage the readers of the epistles with—that the “Great and terrible day of the Lord” would come soon. The punishment would come on ancient Israel and the persecution of the early Christians would subside. Jesus’ Kingdom would be fully establish and opened to all. Considering that the Greek writing calls out certain text by repetition and keywords like “Behold,” I believe Jesus said exactly what he meant—that he was returning soon (Rev 22:7, 12).

This was my starting point when viewing Revelation. The writings of historians, such as Josephus, also correlate in large part to what happened during the war of 66-73 AD. In short, it was “great tribulation, such as has not been from the beginning of the world until now, no, nor ever will be.”—Matt 24:21. Though I strove not to reference too much outside of the Bible, it is useful to know of the culture and eastern symbolism used when attempting to understand the prophecies better.

Speaking of the culture, Revelation was directed to 7 assemblies in particular, those of Asia Minor (Rev 1:11, 22:16), though likely it circulated throughout many of the time. It seems to be written in a way that the Romans wouldn’t understand if they captured the text, yet the original recipients would be able to decipher. Much of the text would seem to make reference to Rome and the Caesars, who upheld themselves as gods. This was a time of severe persecution for Christians. Specifically mentioning these, in such a negative light as this book portrays, would have added additional focus to the Christians of the time as it would have been seen as treason by Rome.

So that’s the general summary of the previous series of Revelation commentaries. I tried to be as direct as possible with my conclusions in this post. Please view the other writings as you may see fit.

The rest of this series can be found here.

Revelation Chapter 22 – The Beginning

Now we come to the final chapter of the book and of the Bible. The first five verses seem to be a continuation of the prior chapter. We see more imagery of the spiritual Jerusalem with the river of life flowing from the throne (v1). Interestingly, this contrasts with the river of fire flowing from the throne in Daniel 7:10. Is there both a river of fire and a river of life? Did the river of life replace the river of fire? These questions don’t seem to have a clear answer within the text, but it is an interesting comparison.

In verse 2, we see the tree of life bearing its fruit every month. As well, we see the leaves used for the healing of the nations. This seems to have both a spiritual and physical component. The leaves heal the nations as we go out into the world spreading the Good News of Jesus’ love and opening of the Kingdom to all.

Verse 3 states that the curse is no more. The Old Covenant came to an end with the full establishment of the New Covenant Kingdom (Heb 8:13). Therefore, there is no more curse. Jesus became the curse for us (Gal 3:13). We still see the physical effects of the world we live in, but the punishments for sin have already been borne by Jesus.

In verse 4&5, we see more of the concepts of the spiritual realm reiterated. We will see Jesus’ face, there will be no night, and we will reign with him forever.

So far, from 21:1 through 22:5, the new Jerusalem vision seems to be all in one sequence. All of this is spoken of as though it has already happened, that we are free to live in the new Kingdom now, though we are still temporarily bound to the physical. None of this sounds like a city that would come down in the physical realm, nor does it sound symbolic. It reads as though it is an actuality in the spiritual realm. It would seem that the spiritual realm is more real than the physical.

Verse 6 brings us again to the familiar terminology, as though to assure us, and especially the original recipients, of the intended time frame of these events—“things which must happen soon.” Verse 7 continues, in the red letters—“Behold, I come quickly” and Jesus goes on to further state, “Blessed is he who keeps the words of the prophecy of this book.” Considering that we today have a hard time even knowing what the words of this book mean, how ever are we to keep them? This again seems to acknowledge that we weren’t the intended audience of these passages as far as the witnessing of the signs, tribulation, and Parousia.

In verse 8&9, John begins worshiping the angel, who tells him not to as he is a fellow servant, but to worship God. The angel again confirms, in verse 10, that the time is at hand and therefore the words of this book should not be sealed up. Verse 11 seems to show the imminence of these happenings as those who were unjust/filthy and those who were righteous/holy would likely stay so. In other words, it was too late at this point to change as the judgment of the Lamb was soon to commence. This would seem to be in reference to passages such as 2 Thes 2:11 (also the chapter where Paul is speaking of the “man of sin/lawlessness”).

Yet again, in verse 12, we see the repetition of the soon concept—“Behold, I come quickly.”

In verse 13&14, we see Jesus’ well known statement of Alpha and Omega. We see the repetition of those who have kept his commandments/washed their robes (depending on the translation) allowed entry into the city and access to the tree of life. We see in verse 15 that those who have not washed their robes remain outside of the city. Perhaps it’s our job to help bring them in!

In verse 16, Jesus again states the intended audience—the assemblies. Again, this correlates with the opening passages of the assemblies of Asia Minor (1:11).

In verse 17, like in the gospels, we see the (Holy) Spirit and the bride (the New Jerusalem) making the invitation to “come” to all—that everyone who is thirsty can drink from the water of life freely. Shouldn’t this also be our gospel, our Good News? Is this the message we are portraying to the world?

In verses 18&19, we see the warning that the passages in this book should not be added to or taken away from. This seems to have been a warning to the early readers that the things in this book would soon happen. Likewise, if we remove the soon terminology, we get a book that can be made to say whatever we would like it to and be relevant to whatever time we retrofit it for. Yet again in verse 20, we see that—“He who testifies these things says, “Yes, I come quickly.” ” As well John reiterates a common theme of the 1st century church—“Amen! Yes, come, Lord Jesus.” It seems they were looking for, and seeing, the signs of Jesus’ approaching Parousia.

The book closes out with a small benediction (21).

In Greek, there was no punctuation and everything was capitalized. In order to delineate a matter of importance, it was either repeated, or a certain type of word was used as to make the topic noticed. We see both being applied in this chapter. The soon reference is made five times and implied in a few other places. Jesus himself directly marks out two of these occurrences with “Behold,” a word meant to draw specific attention to what followed. It would seem that these things were to occur imminently in reference to the intended audience—the assemblies of Asia Minor in the 1st century.

So that’s it. That’s the whole messy, scary, weird, crazy book. I know many may not agree with a lot of what I wrote, but I hope that at least a few points come across that would help others be more readily willing to study some of these scriptures. This commentary, if for nothing else, has helped me immensely in understanding this seemingly “off limits” book. I pray that all come to a greater knowledge of Jesus and his love for us.

For easier viewing, links to this entire commentary can be found here.

Revelation Chapter 21

Now we move into the final chapters. I do plan on doing a post or 3, as God leads, following these commentaries. I want to reiterate that my viewpoint is only one of many and I don’t hold any insistent claims that I’m 100% right. Hopefully, the follow up post(s) will clear up a little of my though process as I view the overall consistency and relevance of the passages.

Chapter 21
There are a lot of concepts in this chapter, but considering the story line so far, they should be reasonably easy to understand.

This chapter seems to circle back to just after the events of judgment on Israel around the period of 70 AD as we see the same new Jerusalem in chapters 12 and 19 descending. As I’ve listed in other posts, Jesus and the apostles all taught an imminent return of Jesus in his Kingdom. We now see that Kingdom in verse 2, that is, the spiritual Kingdom is now manifest among us, but the physical realm of human free will still exists. It would seem throughout the Bible that the element of human free will was always allowed by God. He did, at times, harden those who were already unrepentant to further his plan, but it was always initially their choice.

Verse 1 describes the new “heaven and earth” as the old have passed away. As shown before, this is the same thing Jesus mentions in Matt 5:18 related to ancient Israel. This references back to how Yahweh spoke of Israel, through the prophets, in the Old testament (Isaiah 1:2; Deut 32:1; Jer 2:12, 22:29). Heaven and earth, the old spiritual Israel, had passed away when the earthly remnants of that covenant were destroyed (the temple etc…). The new “heavens and earth” were then established. That is, the Israelites that converted became the first Christians of the New Covenant and brought the outsiders into the new Kingdom. This is why we see the reference of there being no more sea in verse 1. As mentioned previously, the sea seemed to represent outsiders which the old nation considered outcasts. The new spiritual nation of Israel consists of everyone.

In verses 3-4, we see what can be considered the “now and not yet.” The Kingdom is already among us in the spiritual. It’s up to us to begin to live in it in a more realized way. So many seem to live under the worldly kingdom, not knowing they are free to live as fully as possible in the spiritual Kingdom. Jesus speaks often of the Kingdom being here and now. He even speaks of how the religious elite of the time were not entering and attempting to block others from entering (Matt 23:14). It would seem that from the time of Jesus’ ministry, the new Kingdom was being built (John 4:23-24, 14:3), it’s full inception at Jesus’ Parousia. Verse 4, as mentioned before, becomes fully evident when we take our last breath here and fully awaken spiritually in Jesus’ Kingdom, though we can live out elements of it in the here and now as we draw closer to Jesus in this life.

As throughout the rest of the prophecies, the spiritual elements are manifest in the physical world. We are citizens of a spiritual Kingdom and we manifest that Kingdom through our physical lives—or should I say: Are we manifesting Jesus’ Kingdom through out lives or looking forward to a return of vengeance on “those others” just like ancient Israel anticipated?

In verses 5-8, we see that Jesus is making all things new. He gives freely of the water of life and all are welcome to become children of the Kingdom. However, those who choose physical desires over the spiritual Kingdom will have their part in the lake of fire. We see here a mention of a more grand plan than we may be able to imagine. When we consider passages such as Col 1:20, we see a concept that may be appropriate to further expand on. In Phil 2:10-11, we see every knee bowing to Jesus and every tongue confessing that Jesus Christ is Lord, which we see is only possible by the Holy Spirit (1 Cor 12:3). Additionally, we see that kampsē (a derivative of kamptó) is used here—which seems to represent a willing bowing as opposed to sugkuptó—a forced bowing. Could it be possible that God’s plan is to save everyone? Would we dare to hope for such? Note, this isn’t saving our physical selves, this is saving our spiritual selves, though many may have to pass through the second death/lake of fire to be cleansed.

The rest of this chapter, 21:9-27, explains the beauty and grandeur of the New Jerusalem, the bride of Christ. In verses 24-26, we see that the “glory of the nations” will be brought into the city by its residents. This sounds like we are to live our lives as such that we bring others into the Kingdom. This also states that in the spiritual realm, only those who have been purified will be able to enter into the Kingdom.

In the final verse, 27, we see that only when their name is written in the book of life, will those who are outside of the Kingdom be allowed in. This is beginning to get into Chapter 22, so I will pick up here in the final installment of my commentary of these chapters specifically. As stated before, I plan, God willing, to write some additional post(s) after I finish the individual chapter reviews. As stated before, these are my personal views as pertinent to my prayerful studies and the context of the rest of the Bible. Please research for the meaning of these as relevant to your personal walk with Jesus.

The rest of this series can be found here.

Revelation Chapter 20 – Gog, Magog, and the 1000 years

This chapter is one of the more interesting ones to explore. First, I want to begin this post by saying these are my personal conclusions as I’ve studied to put all the pieces together into one coherent message. There seems to be a dividing line in this chapter between what we’ve seen so far, fulfillment of the prophecies as relevant to ancient Israel, and a future fulfillment beyond the 1st century. Up until these current passages, no huge jumps have been intimated as to far-future events. So, with much consideration, I proceed to try to unpack this chapter as I understand it so far.

Considerations
We see one main concept in this chapter that has been a source of much confusion and tends to cast the entire book off of its axis—the 1000 years, aka the millennial rule. As with the rest of this book, my view is to take this as straightforward as possible.

The first major consideration is to compare this chapter with the rest of the book. While we see some shifting of time back and forth within the first century, the time is always specific as to the time period and society specified. There’s no reasonable assumption to be made that because the passage here speaks of 1000 years, that it should be expanded beyond the borders of what it states. In most other passages where there is an unspecified amount of time, the words age (aion) and/or age-during/of (aionios) are used. Though the words correlating with aion have been translated somewhat poorly, when specifying that the 1000 years isn’t precisely that, it would seem more appropriate to use the “aion” terminology.

Likewise, this doesn’t seem to be consistent with an earthly rule. If we categorize it as such, we then take the same stance as the Jewish expectancy of the Messiah—that he would be the ruler of a physical kingdom that would subjugate and destroy all other kingdoms and bring the Jewish kingdom into a golden age of ruling. In essence, we adopt the ancient Jewish standpoint but with a new Christian label superimposed. While there are physical elements played out from Jesus’ rule of the new spiritual Jerusalem, it doesn’t seem to be intended as an earthly kingdom.

In addition, the 1000 years seems to be in reference to the period of time Satan is bound before his release, not the limitations of Jesus’ kingdom. Jesus still rules the new spiritual Jerusalem today and will continue to do so forever.

Gog and Magog
It would seem the identity of Gog and Magog would be crucial to our understanding of these verses. In Ezekiel 38-39, we see references to Gog, king of Magog. It seems the imagery is being reused to refer to future battle(s) to take place approximately 1000 years after the fall of Jerusalem. In addition, Revelation makes mention that these are the lands, not the Jewish people themselves, as the judgment and removal of that infrastructure ended that polity permanently in relation to the their exclusiveness as God’s chosen (as discussed last chapter, Rev 19:3). It seems, if this is referencing a future 1000 years and the original Israel has already been dispersed, then this would be the new (spiritual) Israel.

We see several mentions of the lands associated with Magog in Ezekiel—Rosh, Meshech, and Tubal (38:3). Here is where we enter into deeper waters. Considering the text of Revelation so far though, I would have to consider these locales to be in Asia Minor—what we know today as Turkey. Again, this is to defer to context, Jesus sending a message to the assemblies that were also in…Asia Minor…about something that would be familiar to their society.

What Happened?
It would seem, from the context up to this point, that something was going to happen in and around the lands of Israel and it would involve Asia Minor (Turkey) and others from around the world of that time (~1000 years after Jerusalem fell and Satan was bound). In addition, Ezekiel reveals the why in 38:16 and 39:7. It seems that while Christianity grew immensely during the first 1000 years, there wasn’t perfect peace. Additionally, Jesus never promised that. Christians would become more harassed around this time according to the Ezekiel passages and God would prove again that he is faithful to his people.

So now we look for an event that would correspond to Satan’s release. In 1071, the Seljuk Turks successfully invaded Anatolia, securing a decisive victory over the Byzantine Empire (formerly Rome), and capturing the Emperor (ref). While it isn’t clear if this battle was the beginning of the empire’s decline, the ensuing civil war seems to have only played into securing the Seljuk Empire’s power (ref). One major lose suffered by the Byzantine Empire in this battle, however, was their ability to field troops to protect Christian pilgrims traveling to the Holy Places. It seems between 1073-1098, Jerusalem was continually contested until the First Crusade arrived, securing Jerusalem for a time. It would seem that these crusaders were the wielders of the “fire from God” of Rev 20:9. Note, though, these passages don’t delineate any of these armies being “good.” Just as with Rome delivering the judgment of the Lamb on Israel, it seems the crusaders were dispatched to deliver God’s wrath on those who were continually making bloodshed over Jerusalem. The results of this battle seem strikingly similar to the results of the Roman invasion of Jerusalem.

Additional Concepts
Though the above takes quite a bit to unpack, there are a few other concepts I would like to touch on in this chapter.

After the 1000 years, we see Satan cast into the lake of fire where the beast and false prophet also are (v10). As stated in the previous chapter, this was relaying that the power of that kingdom (Rome) was being destroyed (Daniel 7:26). A thousand years later in history, we see its power still being whittled away. It would seem the lake of fire is to burn away anything that isn’t fit to exist.

In addition, in verses 12-15, we see the judgment of those unbelievers who were dead. We see the sea, death, and Hades giving up their dead. We then see death and Hades thrown into the lake of fire. Again, the lake of fire seems to be for destruction of anything not fit to exist. Now that the power of death is destroyed, it is but a doorway instead of a holding cell. But, what’s the point of God destroying Hades (hell) if he is just going to use the lake of fire for the same purpose—torment? Perhaps the lake of fire has a different function, cleansing of the spirit (though immensely painful) and destruction of dominions. As we see in Rev 15:1, God’s wrath comes to an end. I hope to expand a little more on these topics in the last two chapters of Revelation.

So, this is my current take on chapter 20. As stated before, I won’t claim to be 100% right. These conclusions are reached by considerations such as the audience specified, the timing constraints mentioned within the text, and God’s nature and stated plan for all.

The rest of this series can be found here.

Revelation Chapter 19

Chapter 19
We see, in the first two verses, another repetition of the completion of the judgment on Jerusalem and Israel. In verse 3, we see that her smoke goes up forever and ever. This is, again, a symbolic way of saying complete and permanent destruction of what we know in the physical realm as in passages such as Isaiah 66:24.

In verses 4-6, we see praise given to God in heaven.

In verses 7-9, we see the preparation of the bride and the marriage feast. The bride, as discussed before, being the New Jerusalem. We see this marriage about to happen immediately after the destruction of the old Jerusalem, but first…

In verses 11-16, we see the vivid imagery of Jesus riding on the white horse. This seems to be him coming in his Kingdom as he states some of the apostles would be alive to see (Matt 16:27-28), and that he would come back to get them (John 14:3).

Taken Up
Here’s an interesting point of contention though. We don’t really have any historical verification that any of the early Christians were bodily taken up into heaven. In addition, if all the Christians were taken up to the marriage feast, who was left to spread the gospel? We do have passages in the Bible itself that might explain what happened.

Here we see where parables, such as the 10 virgins (Matt 25:1-13), make much more sense. The first century Christians were told to hold vehemently to the faith and keep watch in preparation for the bridegroom’s arrival. Those that didn’t, while considered Christians, seemed to not have been taken up. Like in the parable, all were virgins (made pure by the blood of Jesus), but only those who kept watch, during this oppressive era, would be taken up. The rest would have to wait out their time here on earth, but weren’t shut out of the Kingdom forever (only the marriage feast). This parable also continues from the prior chapter’s Olivet discourse. It seems Matt 25 directly correlates with the judgment and coming of Jesus that he was explaining. It seems the next parable in that chapter, the parable of the talents, relays a similar message to the early church—those that do nothing with what they’ve been given (the gospel and prophetic warnings) would not be rewarded when Jesus came. We see this same theme communicated in Rev 2 and 3 to the churches of Asia Minor.

In addition to this, we have a strange cessation of the apostles’ writings at this point (after the fall of Jerusalem). We could consider that they had all been martyred by now, but this would discount Jesus’ own statement that some he was speaking to would in no way taste of death until they saw him coming in his Kingdom (Matt 16:27-28). That is, his Kingdom came after the Old Covenant kingdom was judged, destroyed, and delivered up to the Father (1 Cor 15:24).

It would seem these were extreme times for the inception of the Kingdom and much work was to be done. However, when the full Kingdom was manifest, dressed in the acts of the saints (Rev 19:8), the journey for us as children now became less heavily contested. I don’t want to delve much further into these topics in this post as the ideas are starting to cross into chapters 20 and 21.

Chapter 19 Continued
In verses 17-18, we see an angel standing in the sun calling all the birds to an earthly “great supper of God.” This is their feasting of the corpses of those who died in the preceding war. Again, this affirms the time period we’re still dealing with.

In verse 19, it would seem the beast (again representing the Roman empire) along with its constituents (the armies from all over the “known” world subjugated by Rome) were gathering to war against Jesus. To understand what this verse is relaying, we can look to when Paul was on the Damascus road (Acts 9:4-5). As we see with Paul’s early actions, these armies seemed to be marshaling to persecute Jesus through the slaughter of the Christians. It would appear these armies, now that they were done with Jerusalem and Palestine, were now turning their attention to the Christians.

However, in verse 20, we see that Jesus seizes the beast and tosses him and the second beast (aka the false prophet) into the lake of fire. Now we get to an interesting consideration. We know from history that Vespasian and Titus both continued on after the close of the war (73 AD). We don’t see them being plucked from the earth to be thrown alive into the lake of fire. To understand this specific verse, we have to compare it to the correlating passages in Daniel.

In Daniel Chapter 7, we see these same scenes presented but with more detail. Daniel 7:11 shows the first hints of what is taking place in Rev 19:20. The beast (animal) was slain, its body destroyed, and it was to be burned with fire (i.e. the river of fire in verse 10). Daniel seems also confused about this (v15-16). In verse 26, this is further explained though—the dominion of the beast (or it’s rule) would be taken away and destroyed. This is the power and dominion of the beast itself, but not those individuals who incorporated it, that was thrown into the lake of fire.

Returning to Rev 19:21, we see the others involved in the war being killed by the sword of Jesus’ mouth. While we may not have much historical reference to this in the physical realm, we do know that both Vespasian (79 AD) and Titus (81 AD) died within a decade of the end of the war (73 AD).

Putting it all together
While persecution of Christians continued for another two centuries, no war of extermination was launched against them (though based on these passages, it seemed intended). During this period, as may be common knowledge, Christians laid down their lives, just as Jesus did, for love. This laying down of their lives in love worked from within the Roman kingdom and eventually overtook it. This seems to have been God’s intent for Israel, yet instead of laying down their lives in love, even for their enemies, they vehemently held to their code of laws and condemned everyone else that wouldn’t conform to their loveless religion. Eventually, as we see throughout the book of Revelation, judgment came on them based on the Old Covenant penalties that they insisted on receiving by their unrepentant state. Jesus fulfilled and removed that entire covenant once the final judgement was finished. The new Kingdom, ruled by Jesus, then began overtaking the world. This Kingdom, however, isn’t about military might; it’s about love. This Kingdom still continues today, though many under the flag of Christendom are still trying to further the Kingdom by politics, military might, manipulation, etc…instead of love.

Again, these are my views of these scriptures as they pertain to the Bible overall. I encourage everyone to research these things for themselves.

The rest of this series can be found here.

Revelation 17&18 – The Harlot and The Day & Hour

Chapter 17
This chapter seems to start another overview of the events that have taken place so far throughout the book. One of the angels who had one of the 7 bowls takes John to view the judgment of the “great prostitute who sits on many waters” (v1). The identity of this woman is reveled throughout the rest of the chapter, but first, the beast should be fairly straightforward.

As we’ve seen throughout the rest of the book, as well as the correlating prophecies, the beast with 7 heads and 10 horns is representative of Rome and the Caesars, the beast from the sea/abyss. However, it would seem that the horns and heads take on an additional meaning in this chapter.

The horns represent 10 kings with no kingdom as yet, but are given authority with the beast for “1 hour” who they subject themselves to (v12-13). This “hour” would seem to be representative of the final invasion to destroy Jerusalem and the other Jewish people throughout Palestine, similar to last chapter’s sixth bowl, which seems to correlate with chapter 9’s sixth trumpet.

Knowing the identity of the beast, we can then start to consider the identity of the woman:

1.) She is known as Babylon (v5). This aligns with Rev 14:8.
2.) She sits on many waters (v1) symbolizing the encompassing of different “peoples, multitudes, nations, and languages” (v15).
3.) She is drunk with the blood of saints and the martyrs of Jesus (v6). This would seem to align with Matt 23:35-38.
4.) The 10 horns and the beast will come to hate her and war against her (v16), as we see all throughout Revelation so far.
5.) Her kingdom will be given to the beast until the words of God are accomplished (v17). When we compare this with Matt 5:17-18, we get a more clear picture of her identity. It’s important to again note here, like in the Old Testament, the symbolism of “heaven and earth” are representative of God’s chosen people, in this respect, Israel (Isaiah 1:2; Deut 32:1; Jer 2:12, 22:29). “Heaven and earth” passing away here was the stipulation. After the judgment and war ended, the result being the national infrastructure being destroyed, then the law passed away (Heb 8:13).
6.) She reigns over the kings of the earth (v18). This would be the status God imbued her with which she abused.
7.) As with the horns, the seven heads also have an alternate meaning here of seven hills on which the woman sits (v9). This would most likely be the hills of—Zion, Ophel, Moriah, Bezetha, Acra, Gareb, and Goath.
8.) She violated herself with Rome/the beast, as we see in John 19:15, which aligns with why she would have been initially sitting on the beast (v3).

When putting all these together, it would seem the woman in the chapter represents old Jerusalem who was unfaithful to God (v2). As we see in verse 16 and throughout the book, the beast and its “horns” hate and destroy her.

Chapter 18
This chapter seems to tie into the last one as the first 3 verses repeat similar ideas. We begin to see the same concepts as throughout the rest of the New Testament. We see that verse 4 seems to align with Matt 24:16-21. Much of the rest of the chapter is fairly straightforward with what we’ve seen up until this point in Revelation. Old Jerusalem/Israel was made desolate and many mourned her destruction as her riches seemed to be great (ref).

The Day and the Hour
There is another concept to note in these two chapters—the day (18:8) and hour (17:12; 18:10, 17, 19). As Jesus seems to make reference to in Matt 24:36 (as well as the rest of that chapter), and as is a common theme through the rest of the prophetic scriptures, this is that “Great and terrible Day of the Lord,” now focused in on the very “hour” of Jerusalem’s destruction. The day and hour had come!

This is the majority of the keynotes as relevant to these two chapters as many of the other concepts are repeats of former chapters. As before, I encourage all reading this to research the Bible and prayerfully consider such concepts as relevant to your personal walk. I’m not claiming to be 100% right or insisting that my view should be upheld. I’m attempting to explain, in as straightforward of a way as possible based on the text, what these passages may have meant to the original recipients as the book itself specifies.

Going forward, chapters 19, 20, and 21 get much more interesting as some newer concepts are introduced that could shake up things quite a bit.

The rest of this series can be found here.

Revelation 14, 15, & 16

These 3 chapters are somewhat short and reasonably straightforward as they follow the same pattern as previous chapters. There are a few concepts worth noting, however.

Chapter 14
In the first verses (1-5) of this chapter, we again see the 144,000 from chapter 7 that were sealed from each of the tribes. Again, this seems to be the first Jewish converts to Christianity that were found blameless because they had been redeemed by Jesus’ blood.

In the next several verses, we see three angels flying through heaven, one after the other, each with a proclamation.

The first angel proclaims the eternal Good News, that the hour of judgment has come, and that God should be worshiped (v6-7).

The second angel states that Babylon the great, which as up to this point seems to symbolize Jerusalem, has fallen (v8). This angel states her sin is unfaithfulness to God which corrupted all the nations, an opposition to her intent as the salt and light of the earth.

The third angel makes a proclamation that those who worship the beast and receive the mark will also drink of God’s wrath (v9-10).

In verse 11, a pause is needed to clarify a concept that seems often confused. Here we see that “The smoke of their torment goes up forever and ever. They have no rest day and night.” As is explained in more detail here, this isn’t a concept of eternal torment. This is a type of punishment that will go on as long as it has to—day and night and age of ages. Like in other parts of the Bible, such as Isaiah 34:10 and 66:24, the emphasis here is that the punishment will in no way cease, the fire will in no way be put out, until completion.

Verse 12 calls for the Christians here to persevere until the end of the tribulation and verse 13 states those that die in the Lord will be blessed and rest from their labors.

In the rest of the chapter, we see the harvest of the ripe grapes, their being trodden in the wine press of God’s wrath. This seems to symbolize the final invasion of Jerusalem where there was an unprecedented slaughter at the hands of the Romans (ref). It seems there was also a case where many were pursed to the Jordan, slaughtered, and thrown into the river, possibly causing the “river of blood” effect in verse 20 (ref).

Chapter 15
This is a short chapter that introduces the next set of 7—the plagues. There is an important concept in the first verse—“the seven last plagues, for in them, God’s wrath is finished.” Here, we see that there is a cessation to God’s wrath; it doesn’t continue on for all eternity.

The rest of this chapter is fairly straightforward as a view of heaven and the angels being dispatched with the seven plagues.

Chapter 16
This chapter shows the dispersion of the 7 plagues (v1). As with the seals and trumpets, these seem to be happening at the same time, a sort of paralleling of occurrences.

The first plague was harmful sores on those who had the mark of the beast and worshiped it (v2).

The second bowl is poured out into, what appears to be, the sea of Galilee (v3) as recorded by Josephus (ref).

The third bowl is poured into the rivers and streams (v4-5). As mentioned above, this effect could have been caused by the mass slaughter going on in Palestine. This is correlated in verse 6 with the blood of the prophets that was spilled by the Jewish people as also in Matt 23:35-36.

The fourth bowl is poured out on the sun and men were scorched with fire, blaspheming against God and remaining unrepentant (v8-9). It would seem this relates to much of Palestine being burned by the invaders.

The fifth bowl is poured on the throne of the beast—which would be Rome, and his kingdom is darkened—possibly representing the death of Nero and the chaos that ensued. Meanwhile, it seems the physical ailments continued within Palestine though they remained unrepentant (v10-11).

The sixth bowl is poured out on the Euphrates, drying up the water to allow the kings to cross (v12) as we also see correlating with the sixth trumpet. Verse 13 seems to be the dispatching of agents of Rome to gather the conscripted armies of the conquered lands (v13-14). Again, in verse 14, we see mention of the “great day of God, the Almighty.“

Again, in verse 15, we see more of the soon terminology being used by Jesus. “I come like a thief” and “blessed is he who watches” seems to be referencing, at this point in the text, Christians of this time period remaining ever watchful of the signs of Jesus’ coming.

Verse 16 mentions these armies gathering together at Megiddo, which we know as Armageddon. This is the place that the armies were to marshal for the invasion of Palestine. An interesting side-note here, in the 15th century BC, the city of Meggido was surrounded for seven months, similar to the Roman encampment against Jerusalem. However, when the supplies of the city began to falter, the inhabitants surrendered, unlike in the Jerusalem siege where the inhabitants descended into depravity (ref).

In verse 17, we see the final bowl poured out into the air and a loud voice proclaiming “It is done!” Verse 18 again has the same events of lightning, sounds, thunders, and a great earthquake referencing the correlation of the seals and trumpets that had the same. Verse 19 sees the city divided by the earthquake and being called Babylon. In verse 20, we have similar symbolism as listed out previously in chapter 6.

In verse 21, we see another interesting symbol of a plague of hail coming from the sky. Here, we see something specific enough to be historically verified—the weight and color. Josephus records very similar (ref). In this verse, we see unrepentant Israel still blaspheming God.

This closes out this chapter. So far, the timing and society still seems to match with that of Israel during the Roman invasion, of which the destruction of the temple was the climax. Again, I encourage everyone to research these things for themselves to find the meanings as relevant to their personal walk with God.

The rest of this commentary can be found here.

Revelation Chapter 13 – The Beasts

Here we come to possibly one of the tougher subjects in the Bible. I’m not going to pretend to be 100% certain about any claims as I know this is heavily contested scripture. On the same note, it does no good to ignore these concepts and relegate them to some far future fulfillment since we aren’t able to verify with certainty answers that would be acceptable to everyone. It’s important to note we are still dealing with the same time period. We see that this chapter is a continuation of chapter 12, with the dragon giving power to an agent (v2). Based on the rest of the book so far as relevant to both the timeline and the society listed, we can begin to see the possibility that the beast would have some form of representation to the invading Romans as they were the chief persecutors of Christian and Jew alike at this time (v7).

In verse 1, we have a fairly straightforward description of the beast. The standard view is that the seven heads represent the seven Caesars up to Titus. In addition, it would seem that this beast would be foreign, away from Jerusalem, and from the “sea,” a concept that could specify outsider, chaos (as in Genesis), or the abyss (as in other parts of Rev). The sixth wounded and healed head would be that of Nero/Vespasian (v3). Verse 2 states the make-up of the beast’s body: Leopard for Greece, Bear’s feet for Medo-Persia, and a Lion’s mouth for Babylon—the kingdoms the beast has encompassed. In verse 4 we see that many marveled at the strength of the Roman empire and worshiped it. The Caesars generally set themselves up as gods, blaspheming in turn. We see the theme of 42 months, again the theme of the entire book—the duration of the coming judgment on the Jewish people (v5). In verse 6, it seems the description gets more personalized. The beast opens his mouth to blaspheme specifically against God and heaven. He was also given the power to war with and kill the saints/Christians as well as dominion over all the principalities of the area (v8). In verse 9, it would seem that the original recipients are called to take note of these things. As well, in verse 10, they are called to endure for Christ even unto death or captivity.

Verse 11 introduces another beast, this one from the land with two horns that speaks like a dragon. He has the authority of the first beast. He makes others worship the beast (v12), possibly a sign of the Roman conquest. He makes fire come down from the sky (v13) possibly a sign that he commands troops that can launch fiery assaults with something like catapults or arrows. He also forces people to worship Caesar (v14), commanding that images are to be created, and speaks for Caesar in his stead (v15-16). This also seems to intimate, as does the history, that rumors circulated of Nero surviving the “sword wound” and would reappear to take over Rome again. This would have been a tactic to keep loyalty of both Rome and the conquered territories until a new ruler was established. This beast also causes all to have a mark on their hand or forehead that would cause them to be loyal to Rome (v17), this most likely being a type of parchment of fealty or coins bearing Caesar’s image as the official currency. In such a land that Rome is vehemently occupying, all would be required to acknowledge Caesar as lord and would likely be limited (or worse) from buying and selling if they hadn’t submitted. In verse 18, we of coarse see the infamous 666 reference, but are also given acknowledgement that many among the original recipients of this writing would be able to discern this.

Given the evidence so far and a brief study of history, it would seem the first beast would be considered a conglomeration of 7 Caesars including the three involved in the Christian persecution—Nero, Vespasian, and Titus, yet more specifically speaking of Nero with Vespasian being his healed head. Titus would seem related to the second beast as he was mainly in charge of the siege of Jerusalem. The two horns of the second beast most likely represent Vespasian and Titus.

The common spellings of Titus Flavius Vespasianus Augustus (both Titus and Vepasian were known as this until their ruling dynasty began in 69 AD) and Nero Caesar in Hebrew would both equate to the number of the beast in the Gematria (ref). Here, the most likely scenario would be Nero referred to primarily as the beast from the sea, with Vespasian being the healed head. Titus may have been primarily represented by the second beast from the land, though the Flavian dynasty may represent the beast as a whole since the Julian dynasty expired with Nero. These texts seem to have been written as such (the heavy symbolism) so they could be circulated to the assemblies without Rome becoming aware of their intent if these writings were to fall into their hands.

Here we can see how the abomination prophecies of Daniel seem to be fulfilled by Titus, the second beast. As well, when Jesus mentions the abomination standing in the holy place (Matt 24:15), this would seem to line up with Titus encamping Jerusalem. At this point, the Christians were encouraged to flee Judea as to not get caught up in the tribulation (Matt 24:16,21). Meanwhile, the “man of sin” references of Paul (2 Thes 2:1-12) seem to coincide with Nero, the first beast, as his own acts defined him, in addition to how Titus would have presented him during the war—as a god. While the second beast was part of the first, they seem to be signified as two separate entities because of the representation of the two dynasties (Julian and Flavian).

These are my initial conclusions while attempting to stay within the limits of this chapter. I know this might sound complex, and there are deeper considerations as well as more references to these beasts later in Revelation. However, we can reasonably understand during the multi-faceted political upheavals during this time, the degree of symbolic specificity would have been more easily understood by the original intended recipients of these writings.

The rest of this series can be found here.